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Warning to America: 'A False Sense of Security Will Destroy You'
Exclusive Interview With The Shah of Iran
U.S. News & World Report,
March 22, 1976
[2nd of Farvardin, 1355]
Photo:
"The Shah of Iran: The Emperor of Oil"; Time cover page, 1974
[Shah
Mohammad-Reza Pahlavi of Iran:”…let
me ask you a question. Could the United States afford to see Iran lost?
Could the whole world afford it? You can't just live in your dreamland -
your "fortress America" - and let all the countries of the world
eventually disappear. A false sense of security will destroy you - like
nothing. If you pursue that policy, Iran is one country that, if it goes,
you are going to feel it badly. If we disappear, don't think that the rest
of the region will stay as it is. If we go, the inexorable fate of the
region will be that the present source of energy to Europe and Japan, and
to some degree to the U.S., will not only be in jeopardy but will probably
be cut off… If you remain our friends, obviously you will enjoy all the
power and prestige of my country. But if you try to take an unfriendly
attitude toward my country, we can hurt you as badly if not more so than
you can hurt us. Not just through oil - we can create trouble for you in
the region. If you force us to change our friendly attitude, the
repercussions will be immeasurable… I am afraid that today America's
credibility is not too high. You look rather like a crippled giant. Angola
has contributed substantially to that. This kind of policy will only lead
you into more Vietnams in the future. Many things happen before an
election, but after the election the world will be the same place and you
will have to tackle the same problems. I only hope that after the election
you can take decisions and move ahead…”
Question:
Do you plan to buy nuclear power plants, even a nuclear-fuel reprocessing
plant, from the U.S.?
Shah Mohammad-Reza Pahlavi of Iran:
I intend certainly to buy nuclear plants from the U.S. if they are
competitive...On reprocessing [plants], not yet, because it is only
economical if you process large amounts. Maybe one day we shall have so
many atomic plants that we will have to do that in our own country. But
don't forget that we signed the nonproliferation treaty, and when we sign
something we feel obligated to it…]
HIGHLIGHT:
A key Middle East ruler counts on the U.S. for weapons, modern industry,
and technology. Americans view Iran as a stable supplier of oil. Yet the
once-warm relationship shows signs of fraying. The Shah explains why.
BODY:
Q. Your
Majesty, we hear Iran is running into serious money problems despite its
oil wealth. Are you going to have to cut back your ambitious development
plans?
A. We have
a budget deficit of over 2 billion dollars, and our income has dropped by
about 4 billion, if not more. We are going to try to save as much money as
possible, inside the country. We have started a very serious and
meaningful drive against corruption. In many cases we see that our
internal corruption is due to the relation of some of these people with
foreigners. And, my God, these foreigners are very, very corrupt people! I
am not going to speak about cases, but they are awful.
The
foreigners would not hesitate to make a dirty deal or any kind of bribery
they can. We are going to weed this out, and probably this will save
money.
We are not
going to scrap any of the programs. Maybe some will be delayed by a few
months, but that is all. I think we will be capable of carrying out the
plan with some little delay.
Q. You are
spending billions on defenses. Do Iran's security
needs justify the build-up of an armed force of such size?
A.
Obviously, because of what is going on around us and the amount and type
of weapons that we see around us. Just envisage the next 20 years in the
general region of the Indian Ocean. And, by "the Indian Ocean," I mean all
the countries riparian to that ocean. The East African coast is far from
being completely stable and immune to eventual developments which might be
harmful to stability in the region. Berbear
[site of a Soviet-built naval base in the Somali Republic] is not the only
case; there are other sore points.
The
Persian Gulf delivers about 70 per cent of Europe's energy needs and about
90 per cent of Japan's. If these lines of communication are not secure,
then Japan and Europe will crack. So while we are doing this for
ourselves, at the same time I think we are rendering a great service to
the whole of Europe and Japan. I wish the responsibility could be shared
by as many other countries as possible. But for the time being we are
doing the job.
Q. The
U.S. Congress has expressed concern about American involvement in Iran's
military build-up. Is there a risk in having a great number of U.S.
advisers here?
A. First
of all, I don't know what the concern is about. We are paying for the arms
and the experts. I also don't see what you mean by “involvement," because
the contracts state that these people will not be involved in any war
between my country and any other country. These are the terms of the
contracts.
But let me
ask you a question. Could the United States afford to see Iran lost? Could
the whole world afford it? You can't just live in your dreamland - your
"fortress America" - and let all the countries of the world eventually
disappear. A false sense of security will destroy you - like nothing. If
you pursue that policy, Iran is one country that, if it goes, you are
going to feel it badly. If we disappear, don't think that the rest of the
region will stay as it is. If we go, the inexorable fate of the region
will be that the present source of energy to Europe and Japan, and to some
degree to the U.S., will not only be in jeopardy but will probably be cut
off.
Q. What
would you do if Congress embargoes arms sales in the Persian Gulf region?
A.
That would
be so irresponsible that I am not even thinking about it. But if it
happens, do you think our hands are tied? We have 10 other markets to
provide us with what we need. There are people just waiting for that
moment.
If you
remain our friends, obviously you will enjoy all the power and prestige of
my country. But if you try to take an unfriendly attitude toward my
country, we can hurt you as badly if not more so than you can hurt us. Not
just through oil - we can create trouble for you in the region. If you
force us to change our friendly attitude, the repercussions will be
immeasurable.
Q. Are
American weapons and technology too sophisticated for your people?
A. Well,
so far we have been able to handle it, the
ratings of units are almost the same as yours. If the rating is lower, it
is because of lack of spare parts, and that is your fault. You are not
providing the spare parts at the necessary rhythm demanded and required.
All our people receive the exact same education that you give your people,
and they graduate from your schools, so if they are not good it is a
product of your schools.
Q. Will
Iran continue to buy American arms even if the
U.S. doesn't buy more of your oil?
A. Sure -
if we have the money. We never planned to buy more F-14s than first
ordered, but we have plans to buy hundreds and hundreds of other types of
aircraft from the U.S. This includes F-16 aircraft and other things. I
think the advantage to this country of the AWACS [airborne warning and
control system] is without dimension.
"YOU LOOK LIKE A CRIPPLED GIANT"
Q. Does
Iran consider the United States a responsible and credible ally?
A. Well, I
am afraid that today America's credibility is not too high. You look
rather like a crippled giant. Angola has contributed substantially to
that. This kind of policy will only lead you into more Vietnams in the
future. Many things happen before an election, but after the election the
world will be the same place and you will have to tackle the same
problems. I only hope that after the election you can
take decisions and move ahead.
Q. Some
U.S. officials - Treasury Secretary William E. Simon is one - say America
should turn away from Iran, move closer to Saudi Arabia!
A. I think
that relations between our two countries are based on such a high level of
interest that they couldn't be influenced by the pleasure or taste of
individuals with momentary careers. This is a lasting relationship, and
even if people have opinions and influence they are not everlasting.
Q. Do you
anticipate another Arab-Israeli war this year, or more fighting in
Lebanon? If there is a war in the Middle East, what will Iran's policy be?
A. I can't
say the situation is rosy. And, again, maybe the American election has
something to do with that. I am sure that after the elections in the U.S.,
things will get moving. In the meantime we must try, all of us, to do
whatever we can. I think the best thing to do is to reconvene the Geneva
Conference and find a formula for the Palestinians to participate there.
The events
in Lebanon were heartbreaking, and that poor country suffered
terribly. For the moment it looks like a stalemate - a very
dangerous one, too.
I see that
the Israeli Prime Minister [Yitzhak Rabin] is saying that he expects a war
in May. I have always expressed the opinion that [U.N. Security Council]
resolutions 242 and 338 [basically calling for cease-fires, troop
withdrawals, peace negotiations] must be implemented. We can't just accept
fait accompli - the acquisition of land by force - because if you accept
it one place, why should you oppose of someplace else?
Israel and
the U.N. must seek real guarantees and formulas within secure boundaries
for the future. You can't just risk war every time.
The PLO
[Palestine Liberation Organization] should be at Geneva in some form,
because you cannot ignore the existence of so many Palestinians. We have
got to accept this. Just as we accept the existence of Israel, we have to
accept the existence of the Palestinians, too. It is a reality. In the
event of war, I see no reason to change our attitude. But I hope war will
not occur, as it can produce some very unpleasant surprises.
Q. Your
Majesty, do you still believe that Iran will become a world power?
A. Yes, I
think we can do a lot in 25 years' time. I probably won't be around
myself, but the foundation will be laid.
In 12 to
13 years the main infrastructure in every field will be solidly laid down.
And from there we will just pursue the same policies using momentum to
generate new possibilities and power - economic, industrial and human
power, which is so important.
Maybe the
oil will be finished by that time, although I hope we can start the
conservation of oil in 10 years. In the meantime we will go all out in
atomic and solar energy. We shouldn't have ecological problems in dealing
with progress. The country is large, we have barren land, and pollution
should not be a severe problem. We shall pursue sources of energy and save
oil for petrochemical purposes. We also have fantastic reserves of gas. We
will educate the people in various fields needed to make this country a
sophisticated one.
Q. Do you
plan to buy nuclear power plants, even a nuclear-fuel reprocessing plant,
from the U.S.?
A. I
intend certainly to buy nuclear plants from the U.S. if they are
competitive with those offered by France and Germany.
On
reprocessing [plants], not yet, because it is only economical if you
process large amounts. Maybe one day we shall have so many atomic plants
that we will have to do that in our own country. But don't forget that we
signed the nonproliferation treaty, and when we sign something we feel
obligated to it.
GRAFT IN IRAN: "HEADS WILL ROLL"
Q. You
talked earlier about anticorruption, antiprofiteering
campaigns. What new measures do you have in mind?
A. The
fight against profiteering has resulted in a zero inflation rate this year
- hopefully zero.
On
corruption, we are in a position in this country, through our internal
stability, to fight corruption at all levels, not just petty white-collar
crimes. If we find corruption at the highest level, heads will roll. And
don't doubt that this will be pursued. Other countries may be willing to
live with corruption as an existing fact, but not in our case.
Apart from
that, we will need some time to establish correct commodity prices, both
for local goods and imports. We have been cheated badly by foreigners -
foreign companies and firms that were overpricing things. It will take a
little time to know the real prices.
Q. Is Iran
a "police state," as so many outsiders charge?
A. No. I
don't think I am divulging any important state secret, but the whole
number of people in our secret police or security organization is about
3,400. I have seen fantastic figures saying that there were millions of
people in our secret police and that we have more than a hundred thousand
political prisoners. That number is also about 3,200 or 3,300. It is
fantastic how things are exaggerated.
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